Mormons

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Mormons

Post by Courtnut on Thu May 27, 2010 1:23 pm

Just wondering what people from other places think about the Mormon religion? It's always funny to hear what people say... When I travel to another state I always have to say multiple times "..yes, I am from Utah..No, I'm not Mormon"
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Re: Mormons

Post by Rex on Thu May 27, 2010 1:43 pm

From everything I've heard about them they seem like a creepy cult on part with Scientology. I am really glad that so far I haven't seen any of them in my country

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Re: Mormons

Post by Courtnut on Thu May 27, 2010 4:54 pm

A lot of people confuse them with the FLDS church though. The Mormon's don't think of FLDS even close to the same religion. When in all reality, there aren't many differences. I think they are all nuts and they are mostly judgemental and rude to me, because I am not part of their cult. Smile They don't believe in Scientology, at all. . .

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Re: Mormons

Post by Unit7 on Thu May 27, 2010 5:15 pm

I think he was talking about how they are like a cult similar to that of Scientology.

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Re: Mormons

Post by Rex on Thu May 27, 2010 10:37 pm

A lot of people confuse them with the FLDS church though.
FLDS? Not sure who they are


Unit7 wrote:I think he was talking about how they are like a cult similar to that of Scientology.

Pretty much. Not so much their beliefs since when you get right down to it all religious/cult beliefs have their level of somewhat incredible theologies and the only difference between what we see as socially acceptable and made up fiction is age. No it's more along the lines of their behavior which from what I have heard is quite often what I would call creepy and sometimes right down despicable
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Re: Mormons

Post by Courtnut on Thu May 27, 2010 10:48 pm

Agreed! It does make Utah a decent place to live, less crime and people willing to help others. . .
Do you guys believe in Creationism or Evolution?
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Re: Mormons

Post by melissa052 on Thu May 27, 2010 11:09 pm

I find evolution easier to believe.... Not a big fan of creationism or religion in general! Wink
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Re: Mormons

Post by Rex on Thu May 27, 2010 11:17 pm

Evolution theory is science. Creationism is fiction. It's literally that simple.
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Re: Mormons

Post by Unit7 on Thu May 27, 2010 11:38 pm

Courtnut wrote:Agreed! It does make Utah a decent place to live, less crime and people willing to help others. . .
Do you guys believe in Creationism or Evolution?


Which do I believe in? Well thats simple.

As a great King... well actually he wasn't all that great of a King. Dude why did they cancel Kings anyways?

Anyways as King Silas once said.

'Evoltion is just one of God's many tools'

But bugs me about the whole contraversy is that people seem to think that Evolution seems to go against religion or God.

Of course then they throw in the Big Bang Theory and then I have to facepalm because...

Seriously what does BBT have to do with evolution? silent

I believe that...

God put into motion a series of things that would allow Animals to evolve, change, and adapt to their surroundings. He made it so that such changes and mutations can be passed down through genetics and... uh yeah.

*shrugs*

Simple really.

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Re: Mormons

Post by Courtnut on Fri May 28, 2010 12:35 am

I think people have a hard time believing that we were once an ape. Like it's a bad thing or something. They are like the smartest animal and so close to a human it makes perfect sense.
And I guess that all of the archaeologists just put all of those bones there of the dinosaurs and everything! Right?
I mean it makes NO sense at all to say "God clapped his hands and boom the world was created with a perfect human being" I think if their is a God, all of the generations before us he was just experimenting. Haha
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Re: Mormons

Post by dreamgirl18 on Fri May 28, 2010 10:00 am

I have a lot of Mormon friends and they're perfectly normal...Well, as normal as they can be after hanging out with me Razz

But yeah, they're really not weird or "cult"-y at all.

http://www.mormon.org/mormonorg/eng/basic-beliefs/the-restoration-of-truth/the-restoration-of-truth

Unit7 wrote:
Courtnut wrote:Agreed! It does make Utah a decent place to live, less crime and people willing to help others. . .
Do you guys believe in Creationism or Evolution?


Which do I believe in? Well thats simple.

As a great King... well actually he wasn't all that great of a King. Dude why did they cancel Kings anyways?

Anyways as King Silas once said.

'Evoltion is just one of God's many tools'

But bugs me about the whole contraversy is that people seem to think that Evolution seems to go against religion or God.

Of course then they throw in the Big Bang Theory and then I have to facepalm because...

Seriously what does BBT have to do with evolution? silent

I believe that...

God put into motion a series of things that would allow Animals to evolve, change, and adapt to their surroundings. He made it so that such changes and mutations can be passed down through genetics and... uh yeah.

*shrugs*

Simple really.

I couldn't have said it better myself. It always gets to me when people make this big thing about teaching evolution in schools because it's against God. But, then again, I do live in the Bible Belt...*sigh*
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Re: Mormons

Post by Hannah_Banana222 on Fri May 28, 2010 1:38 pm

Ha! Mormons...
What's so weird about fancily clad cyclists who refuse to drink and believe that God physically had sex with Mary, who then became pregnant with a prophet? Seems perfectly sane. *rolls eyes*
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Re: Mormons

Post by maggiemay on Fri May 28, 2010 2:23 pm

I believe in evolution.

And it's not believed that we came from monkeys, it's that there was one ancestor and it got split into 2 groups- one to the grasslands and the other to the forest. The grassland ones turned into humans and the forest ones turned into monkeys.
Just making sure people know that, I though we came from monkeys but I learned this year that evolution doesn't work that way.
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Re: Mormons

Post by Rex on Fri May 28, 2010 2:55 pm

But yeah, they're really not weird or "cult"-y at all.
In my personal experience I don't think that you can really judge an organization (at least large ones) based on a few individuals in them. That's why I usually prefer to look at a combination of the history, ideology,current actions , the way they treat problems with their followers and so on. But then again that's just me

But bugs me about the whole contraversy is that people seem to think that Evolution seems to go against religion or God.
This always mystified me as well. I don't really see any conflict. I think it all the problems came from a small but influential group of powerful idiots. They got the propaganda machine going and people just followed which is quite easily since most people have no understanding or a desire to understand science


I mean it makes NO sense at all to say "God clapped his hands and boom the world was created with a perfect human being"

I don't think you understand how religion works

What's so weird about fancily clad cyclists who refuse to drink and believe that God physically had sex with Mary, who then became pregnant with a prophet? Seems perfectly sane
To a neutral observer it's about as sane as


*image removed*



Just making sure people know that, I though we came from monkeys but I learned this year that evolution doesn't work that way.


If you want to learn more about evolution I suggest you go this site. It will answer a lot of questions and clarify a lot of things

oops removed wrong thing... my bad.
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Re: Mormons

Post by Unit7 on Fri May 28, 2010 3:25 pm

I just read one of the things quoted by Rex.

If I understood the whole thing correctly.

We didn't come from Monkeys. But rather at some point in our ancesry we shared a very common creature/animal whatever. At some point the two species would have diverged. Thats pretty much what the whole Missing Link thing is all about.

But its been awhile and I should probably read that website rex linked to lol

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Re: Mormons

Post by Rex on Fri May 28, 2010 3:36 pm

It's been awhile since I bothered with this subject but from what I remember there wasn't actually such a thing as a missing link with it beign actually missing. I think they talked more about it here

"There are no transitional fossils."

A transitional fossil is one that looks like it's from an organism intermediate between two lineages, meaning it has some characteristics of lineage A, some characteristics of lineage B, and probably some characteristics part way between the two. Transitional fossils can occur between groups of any taxonomic level, such as between species, between orders, etc. Ideally, the transitional fossil should be found stratigraphically between the first occurrence of the ancestral lineage and the first occurrence of the descendent lineage, but evolution also predicts the occurrence of some fossils with transitional morphology that occur after both lineages. There's nothing in the theory of evolution which says an intermediate form (or any organism, for that matter) can have only one line of descendents, or that the intermediate form itself has to go extinct when a line of descendents evolves.

To say there are no transitional fossils is simply false. Paleontology has progressed a bit since Origin of Species was published, uncovering thousands of transitional fossils, by both the temporally restrictive and the less restrictive definitions. The fossil record is still spotty and always will be; erosion and the rarity of conditions favorable to fossilization make that inevitable. Also, transitions may occur in a small population, in a small area, and/or in a relatively short amount of time; when any of these conditions hold, the chances of finding the transitional fossils goes down. Still, there are still many instances where excellent sequences of transitional fossils exist. Some notable examples are the transitions from reptile to mammal, from land animal to early whale, and from early ape to human. For many more examples, see the transitional fossils FAQ in the talk.origins archive, and see http://www.geo.ucalgary.ca/~macrae/talk_origins.html for sample images for some invertebrate groups.

The misconception about the lack of transitional fossils is perpetuated in part by a common way of thinking about categories. When people think about a category like "dog" or "ant," they often subconsciously believe that there is a well-defined boundary around the category, or that there is some eternal ideal form (for philosophers, the Platonic idea) which defines the category. This kind of thinking leads people to declare that Archaeopteryx is "100% bird," when it is clearly a mix of bird and reptile features (with more reptile than bird features, in fact). In truth, categories are man-made and artificial. Nature is not constrained to follow them, and it doesn't.

Some Creationists claim that the hypothesis of punctuated equilibrium was proposed (by Eldredge and Gould) to explain gaps in the fossil record. Actually, it was proposed to explain the relative rarity of transitional forms, not their total absence, and to explain why speciation appears to happen relatively quickly in some cases, gradually in others, and not at all during some periods for some species. In no way does it deny that transitional sequences exist. In fact, both Gould and Eldredge are outspoken opponents of Creationism.

"But paleontologists have discovered several superb examples of intermediary forms and sequences, more than enough to convince any fair-minded skeptic about the reality of life's physical genealogy." - Stephen Jay Gould, Natural History, May 1994
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-misconceptions.html


Although it's been a very long time since I bothered with this so better research it for yourselves



and since we are in a religious forum perhaps this will be of greater interest then details of evolution

God and Evolution

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-god.html
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Re: Mormons

Post by Courtnut on Fri May 28, 2010 10:36 pm

In case you didn't sum it up, Rex, I try to use as minimal words as possible to explain things. And that's just what came out Smile I do understand religion, as I have been in many different religions my whole life. Now I started to think for myself, and not believing something just because someone tells me it's true. When there is absolutely no proof.
When I said we came from monkeys, I'm also talking about cromagnon, neanderthals... Just because they were dumb back then, they have to start somewhere. . . They invented fire, and everything. The generations keep getting smarter and smarter, though I'm starting to think with this last one we're going downhill Smile elephant
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Re: Mormons

Post by Rex on Sun May 30, 2010 1:22 am

In case you didn't sum it up, Rex, I try to use as minimal words as possible to explain things
Which is usually not a good idea unless you an expert and are really gifted in the expression department

I do understand religion, as I have been in many different religions my whole life.
That would point towards you not understanding religion.

When I said we came from monkeys, I'm also talking about cromagnon, neanderthals..

As I said it's been a while but I do believe it's apes. Not monkeys

Now I started to think for myself, and not believing something just because someone tells me it's true.

You always have to believe something based on the word of others.
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Re: Mormons

Post by Courtnut on Sun May 30, 2010 1:54 am

No, because everyone especially my father are trying to get me to believe what they believe. And I decided to believe what I choose.
And Rex, you are very overcritical of people.
And if I remember Biology at all, monkeys, humans and apes are part of the same family. But branched out into their own sub-families.
And me being in different religions, means I've heard more then a lot of people and I hear all of their points of view. And they all sound like crap to me. Not much to understand.
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Re: Mormons

Post by Rex on Sun May 30, 2010 2:50 am

No, because everyone especially my father are trying to get me to believe what they believe.
That doesn't mean much. Claiming you understand religion because people tried to force it on you is like claiming to understand quantum physics because they forced you to learn some physics in school


And if I remember Biology at all, monkeys, humans and apes are part of the same family
Well technically every single organism on Earth is part of the same family. But it's still important to note the details

And me being in different religions, means I've heard more then a lot of people and I hear all of their points of view.
We live in the information age. Everybody has heard of everything know. There is huge diffrence between hearing about something,learning about something and actual understanding of something

And they all sound like crap to me. Not much to understand.
I really hope you are a still a kind because it would be really sad if an adult is so ignorant

And Rex, you are very overcritical of people.

No I am not. It's just that this new political correctness crap we have going makes people think that just because they have an opinion it's worth something. But it's not. Worth and respect are things that are earned. Not something you are born with
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Re: Mormons

Post by Courtnut on Sun May 30, 2010 3:34 am

Exactly. It is not something I like to argue about. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. If you don't like it, oh well. No need to correct every single thing that a person says. I let people believe what they want, and I chose not to believe in religion. That does not make me ignorant. Just because I'm not giving in to what everybody says about religion, doesn't make me ignorant. I think everyone's opinion is worth something. So you saying mine is worth nothing, is like saying yours is worth something. And I never thought yours wasn't.
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Re: Mormons

Post by Rex on Sun May 30, 2010 6:24 am

Everyone is entitled to their opinion
Why should they be?

If you don't like it, oh well. No need to correct every single thing that a person says.
On the contrary. Ignorance is the biggest problem in our world. Not hate ,not war but ignorance.Therefore it's not wise to encourage it

That does not make me ignorant
Your choice not to believe no. Your attitude on the subject and and general points you have tried to make in this forum on the other hand does seem to point towards ignorance

Just because I'm not giving in to what everybody says about religion, doesn't make me ignorant.
No being ignorant of religion is what makes you ignorant. Although I said if you are still a child it's not so tragic so here is to hoping you are


I think everyone's opinion is worth something.
No it's not. At least not in a serious conversation. An opinion is worth something when backed up by facts,logical argument or at least showing that you have knowledge o the subject you are talking about and so on. If not the the opinion is worth about as much as some parrot shouting random nonsensical words
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Re: Mormons

Post by Courtnut on Sun May 30, 2010 1:15 pm

Well since you know everything. But the only point I am going to try and make is that you do not know me, you cannot assume how I am, I am not ignorant. And you trying to make me feel bad when you don't even know me it's just rediculous. You go through everything that I say, just to point it out as wrong. I mean seriously.
And I'm sorry I'm not closed-minded, I think everyone is entitled to an opinion. Not just you because you know everything. I don't know everything about abortion, but I am still against it. So you're the only one with an opinion because you have researched it more??
I'm sorry, I am an adult, and I don't really care to research it just to prove someone wrong.
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Re: Mormons

Post by Rex on Sun May 30, 2010 1:22 pm

Well since you know everything.
If I knew everything I wouldn't be here. The point of entering a discussion is to learn new things and update your worldview. That's why I am always hoping that someone defeats my arguments.


But the only point I am going to try and make is that you do not know me, you cannot assume how I am, I am not ignorant.

Yes I Can. Your own posts tell me all I need to know. Especially this one

And me being in different religions, means I've heard more then a lot of people and I hear all of their points of view. And they all sound like crap to me. Not much to understand.



And you trying to make me feel bad when you don't even know me it's just rediculous.

If I wanted to make you feel bad you would be in a fetal position on the floor weeping. You assume I am trying to attack you just for the sake of attacking you but this is wrong. I am trying to educate you so you can grasp the immense importance and wisdom of religions from all around the world and how they have helped shape our history,society,ethical norms and so much more

You go through everything that I say, just to point it out as wrong. I mean seriously.
Then show me it's not wrong
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Re: Mormons

Post by Courtnut on Sun May 30, 2010 1:30 pm

Well, why would you want to do that to someone? Yes, every thing I have ever said in my whole life is wrong. But oh well.
And yes there are plenty of religions I have no idea about. I mainly just know about the branches of christianity in my state. And the way they push it on you here helped me be closed minded about it. It helped us a lot to come to where we are not gonna lie, but where I live it also screws up a lot of things.
Well I feel like an idiot and I assume that's what you were going for. Yay me.
And you shouldn't judge someone by posts they make on the internet, especially because my beliefs aren't the same as yours. Doesn't make me any less of a person. I could say you are a mean person just by the way you are talking in this thread, but I'm not going to because I've read other posts from you and you don't always talk that way.
I am learning stuff true, but you don't have to say it in a snotty way that just makes me feel stupid.
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