Immortality...

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Immortality...

Post by melissa052 on Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:02 pm

I am so stuck in a conversation right now... Not sure what to say to continue! What are some positives you can think up about immortality?
The situation is a girl is wanting it so she can be with her immortal husband and children forever, but her husband, who knows how she can become one (An immortal) refuses to let her have it, only seeing the negatives...

And no, this isn't for a screenplay, it's RP. Kind of... Via formspring... If you wanna look back at the convo, it can be found here: http://www.formspring.me/GirlinTARDIS
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Re: Immortality...

Post by melissa052 on Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:18 pm

Never mind... Cleverly thought up an awesome answer!
"Our lives are what we make them. They are exactly the way we believe they are. You choose our own paths, and becoming immortal would mean that you would have an opportunity to make all the wrong things right. The opportunities to become whatever you wish, you’d have the opportunity to change the bad things. And the opportunity to do and see all things, forever."

Glad I got that figured out!

But still, would love opinions on that, pros and cons of immortality! It seems to be a huge subject in the RP fam I'm a part of.
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Re: Immortality...

Post by PiperC! on Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:15 pm

Everything has more value when it's finite. That's how I see it.
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Re: Immortality...

Post by Unit7 on Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:33 pm

How is it important as far as Doctor Who goes? Even the Immortal Jack Harkness died in the end. Even the Time Lords can't escape death forever. I believe there is actually a 13 Regeneration Limit on them or some number like that. Though I suppose its fair to mention that the Master 'somehow' managed to go further. Though I believe this is more to the fact that he makes for a good villian.


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Re: Immortality...

Post by Rex on Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:59 pm

But still, would love opinions on that, pros and cons of immortality! It seems to be a huge subject in the RP fam I'm a part of.

There aren't any cons to immortality not really.

The biggest that people like to talk about is that you are going to have to watch everybody you love die. But you have to do this if you are a mortal as well. Quite a few people we love will die . This is how the world works

Hmm based on this convo(well the little I read of it) there seems to be the argument that being immortal leads to becoming a monster. I am guessing that's due to immortality making you feel superior to others and thus valuing them less. But honestly you don't need to be immortal for this. You only need to spend some time with people to understand the sheer stupidity of many of them. As for the monster part this is something highly subjective. Every age has their own standards of what good and evil is. Based on our standards quite a few people in the past were monsters. Based on past standards we with our freedom of all religions, tolerance of pagans, gays,muslims and so on are monsters to them

Of course one has to take in account what the type of immortality is. Potentially if you are trapped in someplace you could spend thousands or even millions of years stuck and going completely insane

Hmm I guess from a religious perspective if you are immortal you never get to go heaven. I guess that can be a con , I think I saw. I think I saw a story once where the gods cursed a warrior with immortality thus he wasn't able to die honorably in battle and go to Valhalla

Of course for more info you should watch
http://www.youtube.com/show/highlander
Very Happy
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Re: Immortality...

Post by Unit7 on Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:11 pm

The biggest that people like to talk about is that you are going to have to watch everybody you love die. But you have to do this if you are a mortal as well. Quite a few people we love will die . This is how the world works


Its more about the idea of not being able to love anyone. Yes even as mortals we run the risk of watching everyone we love die. That is a fact of life. However there is also the very real possibility that you will grow old and watch your grandchildren running around.

If you were immortal, or even have a higher life expectancy, then there is no chance. Everyone you meet, all the friends, lovers, will all be swept away. At some point you will just cut yourself off from that and deny yourself the possibilities of love and truly connecting with anyone.

Can you honestly say that this sounds enjoyable? Now you could just move from one person to the next, but after awhile and you have all the time in the world, its going to wear you down. How much of that kind of pain can one take before they decide enough is enough?

So for the average joe, immortality would at first seem like a great thing. But my guess is that it would also be a potential curse. Seeing everyone you love die, knowing everyone you will ever care about will die.

But then, maybe not. I suppose the chances of me ever truly discovering this speculation is correct is pretty much ziltch.

Immortality would also have the potential to leave someone hate the world. How much have humans really changed over the centuries? Humans are constantly going to war with each other. We are still just as greedy, many still use religion and God to justify their actions. People are still struggling for equal rights. Racism, homophobia, Justin Bieber... do you really want to spend eternity watching such musical artists rising to such fame and fortune? Razz

Then of course there is the very real possibility of becoming clausterphobic(to lazy to check spelling) because your right. It would really suck to be trapped somewhere for a few million years. Hell being trapped in the same place for a decade would be brutal. So you would definitely try and not go anywhere that could happen. Razz


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Re: Immortality...

Post by melissa052 on Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:21 pm

Unit7 wrote:How is it important as far as Doctor Who goes? Even the Immortal Jack Harkness died in the end. Even the Time Lords can't escape death forever. I believe there is actually a 13 Regeneration Limit on them or some number like that. Though I suppose its fair to mention that the Master 'somehow' managed to go further. Though I believe this is more to the fact that he makes for a good villian.

It's roleplay, we tend to make it just a little different from the TV show... Not by changing rules or anything but... Well, it's hard to explain.... Basically 11/Amy are together, Amy wants immortality but 11 refuses to give it to her. 10(me)/Rose are together, and I offered Rose her chance with a ring I made up from a planet/society I made up, she took it at first but refused it the day after because she felt guilty taking what Amy's Doctor refused to give her. That's pretty much where the immortality talk in the RP fam tends to come from.

Rex wrote:
But still, would love opinions on that, pros and cons of immortality! It seems to be a huge subject in the RP fam I'm a part of.

There aren't any cons to immortality not really.

The biggest that people like to talk about is that you are going to have to watch everybody you love die. But you have to do this if you are a mortal as well. Quite a few people we love will die . This is how the world works

Hmm based on this convo(well the little I read of it) there seems to be the argument that being immortal leads to becoming a monster. I am guessing that's due to immortality making you feel superior to others and thus valuing them less. But honestly you don't need to be immortal for this. You only need to spend some time with people to understand the sheer stupidity of many of them. As for the monster part this is something highly subjective. Every age has their own standards of what good and evil is. Based on our standards quite a few people in the past were monsters. Based on past standards we with our freedom of all religions, tolerance of pagans, gays,muslims and so on are monsters to them

Of course one has to take in account what the type of immortality is. Potentially if you are trapped in someplace you could spend thousands or even millions of years stuck and going completely insane

Hmm I guess from a religious perspective if you are immortal you never get to go heaven. I guess that can be a con , I think I saw. I think I saw a story once where the gods cursed a warrior with immortality thus he wasn't able to die honorably in battle and go to Valhalla

Of course for more info you should watch
http://www.youtube.com/show/highlander
Very Happy
Very insightful! And now that I think of it, it's actually kind of true... Very true, actually, given the situation, at least!
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Re: Immortality...

Post by Unit7 on Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:31 pm

melissa052 wrote:
It's roleplay, we tend to make it just a little different from the TV show... Not by changing rules or anything but... Well, it's hard to explain.... Basically 11/Amy are together, Amy wants immortality but 11 refuses to give it to her. 10(me)/Rose are together, and I offered Rose her chance with a ring I made up from a planet/society I made up, she took it at first but refused it the day after because she felt guilty taking what Amy's Doctor refused to give her. That's pretty much where the immortality talk in the RP fam tends to come from.

God remind me to stay clear of that. To much Canon breaking, it would make my mind boggle. I mean the very thing that makes the Doctor, the Doctor, is the idea that he can never really be with anyone. Its the whole reason why he could never truly be with Rose. The only way he could is vicariously through... what exactly is that thing called? the regenerated one from the hand?

I always get itchy when people break canon like that. Sad

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Re: Immortality...

Post by melissa052 on Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:40 pm

Unit7 wrote:
melissa052 wrote:
It's roleplay, we tend to make it just a little different from the TV show... Not by changing rules or anything but... Well, it's hard to explain.... Basically 11/Amy are together, Amy wants immortality but 11 refuses to give it to her. 10(me)/Rose are together, and I offered Rose her chance with a ring I made up from a planet/society I made up, she took it at first but refused it the day after because she felt guilty taking what Amy's Doctor refused to give her. That's pretty much where the immortality talk in the RP fam tends to come from.

God remind me to stay clear of that. To much Canon breaking, it would make my mind boggle. I mean the very thing that makes the Doctor, the Doctor, is the idea that he can never really be with anyone. Its the whole reason why he could never truly be with Rose. The only way he could is vicariously through... what exactly is that thing called? the regenerated one from the hand?

I always get itchy when people break canon like that. Sad

Haha, OK! Razz It's kind of fun though. And very AU-y! I love AU DW!
The Meta-Crisis?



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Re: Immortality...

Post by Rex on Sat Dec 18, 2010 6:58 am



Its more about the idea of not being able to love anyone. Yes even as mortals we run the risk of watching everyone we love die. That is a fact of life. However there is also the very real possibility that you will grow old and watch your grandchildren running around.

Growing old sounds good in theory because we have this nice little picture of a grandparents with their grandkids running around but the actual reality of growing old as your body and mind begin to betray is not pretty at all

If you were immortal, or even have a higher life expectancy, then there is no chance. Everyone you meet, all the friends, lovers, will all be swept away. At some point you will just cut yourself off from that and deny yourself the possibilities of love and truly connecting with anyone.
Not really. Technology is progressing at an astounding rate. In fact I am pretty sure we are just a few hundred years away from immortality. So there is always hope. Also quite a lot gets swept away in our own life as well. Hell knows how many friends I lost contact with. But that happens over time. Unless becoming immortal changes your psychology there is no reason why you can't get over this if you reasonably mentally stable


Can you honestly say that this sounds enjoyable? Now you could just move from one person to the next, but after awhile and you have all the time in the world, its going to wear you down. How much of that kind of pain can one take before they decide enough is enough?
It's much better then the alternative. Again losing very dear loved but also combined with losing control over your body and mind until you are a pathetic caricature of yourself.
Also time heals a lot. It may take some time but if you don't jump from one soul scorching ever lasting romance to another all the time yes I do believe you can learn to cope


So for the average joe, immortality would at first seem like a great thing. But my guess is that it would also be a potential curse. Seeing everyone you love die, knowing everyone you will ever care about will die.
This can happen even if you are mortal. Especially if you live in a third world country or in a neighborhood with very high crime rate



But then, maybe not. I suppose the chances of me ever truly discovering this speculation is correct is pretty much ziltch.

On the contrary. You are the perfect demographic for this. Thousands of universities,lab,r & departments and so on are eager to use people exactly like you as test subjects. Just go to any university campus and you will be drowned in such offers. Some of them actually pay quite good money and you never know if some side effects of all these drugs,treatments,experiments and so on won't be immortality
[quote]

Immortality would also have the potential to leave someone hate the world. How much have humans really changed over the centuries? Humans are constantly going to war with each other. We are still just as greedy, many still use religion and God to justify their actions. People are still struggling for equal rights. Racism, homophobia, Justin Bieber... do you really want to spend eternity watching such musical artists rising to such fame and fortune? Razz
Unless immortality changes your psyche drastically you have the same potential as mortals. Honestly I am not immortal and yet I pretty despise a big chunk of humanity.

Dude don't even joke about this. The future of music can't be this bleak

[Then of course there is the very real possibility of becoming clausterphobic(to lazy to check spelling) because your right. It would really suck to be trapped somewhere for a few million years. Hell being trapped in the same place for a decade would be brutal. So you would definitely try and not go anywhere that could happen. Razz


I think clausterphoibia(?) would be the least of your problems if you spend even a few decades trapped under some rock or something. Your mind would be pretty much destroyed(by the way did you watch the latest Bleach? In it Mayuri killed a guy exactly in this way. If you don't mind getting a little bit spoiled check it out here

Spoiler:













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